Growing Together: Open Forum

Hello all! 

I am reaching out for some advice or general reflections about my students and some extreme behaviors in the garden. 

We have had a school garden for 2 years and many of my students have experienced it from planting to wedding to making art in the garden. (I am the art teacher and we do a lot of nature journaling) They know the expectations, they're always talked about before we head outside and I still am struggling with extreme behaviors. Screaming and running seem to be the worst. I had students yesterday pulling out dead tomato plants and putting them on traps to drag to the compost. I set up five groups to do it and it was mayhem! I had one group screaming and thrashing as yelling as they pulled vines apart. They were so disregulated that they started pulling out the sunflower stalks (which we were leaving up bc the birds are still eating the seeds) and using them like baseball bats! 

When we got inside we regrouped and I explained how hard it was to enjoy the outdoors because of all the screaming and fighting over who was doing what. I talked about communication skills and how their choices matter (like birds not being able to eat now) and I don't feel like anything sunk in. 

Does anyone have any encouragement or advice on screaming and arguing in the garden? 

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Amanda Twombly
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You are not alone! This has been happening to me for years. Being outside, even in the most organized garden, is such a different kind of classroom. Students may feel very stimulated and confused about how to behave. I think kids have worked so hard to regulate their bodies during their quiet reading, math, listening and discussion groups, not to mention what they may be dealing with at home, that they need a physical and expressive outlet. I do my best to manage and allow for them to swing, scream, pull and thrash in ways that no one gets hurt (even plants and tools).

What are ways and activities that you can let the kids get a little WILD? Is there somewhere that being loud will not disturb other classes too much? If you anticipate the kid's need to be fierce, and set your explicit expectations and boundaries, I think you will feel more in control of the situation.

I use:

*Attention getting sounds and fun transitions back to a calm classroom.

*plant part relay race game

*shredding old stems and material to compost 

*heavy lifting work!

*If they are pulling the wrong things while crazily pulling out weeds, I redirect them to dig elsewhere - somewhere they can make a mess and maybe just use their hands.

*I've made up rhyming "Rules for Tools" and repeat them often. Keep the tools LOW and slow and in control, Low and slow and do not throw, Give Space Just in Case. If they can't do that, I take the tool away and they can try again next time.

I hope this helps. I've been working on it for a long time.

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Steph Rooney
Arbor School of Arts and Sciences
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Hi Amanda, what a great experience for your kids!

I have had similar experiences like that but in a smaller scale because I teach high school and they tend to behave better (open to discussion 😊). I find that if I give them a task/purpose with a product to deliver helps, either individual or in small group work. 
But again, some students are prone to engaging others in that behavior and it is best to keep tabs on the group's mood every day. I hope that helps and that you keep up the amazing experience for the kids!

Regards,

Cecilia Campbell

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Cecilia Campbell
BioTECH High School
Homestead FL
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Original Message:
Sent: 11-17-2023 01:41:08 PM
From: Steph Rooney
Subject: Monitoring Extreme Behaviors in the Garden

You are not alone! This has been happening to me for years. Being outside, even in the most organized garden, is such a different kind of classroom. Students may feel very stimulated and confused about how to behave. I think kids have worked so hard to regulate their bodies during their quiet reading, math, listening and discussion groups, not to mention what they may be dealing with at home, that they need a physical and expressive outlet. I do my best to manage and allow for them to swing, scream, pull and thrash in ways that no one gets hurt (even plants and tools).

What are ways and activities that you can let the kids get a little WILD? Is there somewhere that being loud will not disturb other classes too much? If you anticipate the kid's need to be fierce, and set your explicit expectations and boundaries, I think you will feel more in control of the situation.

I use:

*Attention getting sounds and fun transitions back to a calm classroom.

*plant part relay race game

*shredding old stems and material to compost 

*heavy lifting work!

*If they are pulling the wrong things while crazily pulling out weeds, I redirect them to dig elsewhere - somewhere they can make a mess and maybe just use their hands.

*I've made up rhyming "Rules for Tools" and repeat them often. Keep the tools LOW and slow and in control, Low and slow and do not throw, Give Space Just in Case. If they can't do that, I take the tool away and they can try again next time.

I hope this helps. I've been working on it for a long time.

------------------------------
Steph Rooney
Arbor School of Arts and Sciences
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 11/18/2023 11:16:00 AM
From: Cecilia Campbell
Subject: RE: Monitoring Extreme Behaviors in the Garden

Hi Amanda, what a great experience for your kids!

I have had similar experiences like that but in a smaller scale because I teach high school and they tend to behave better (open to discussion 😊). I find that if I give them a task/purpose with a product to deliver helps, either individual or in small group work. 
But again, some students are prone to engaging others in that behavior and it is best to keep tabs on the group's mood every day. I hope that helps and that you keep up the amazing experience for the kids!

Regards,

Cecilia Campbell

------------------------------
Cecilia Campbell
BioTECH High School
Homestead FL
------------------------------

This is a great questions and super important in getting anything accomplished with kids. 

We have found that seating js really important, especially for the lesson part and setting expectations. Tree stumps, turned over Lowes buckets, a tarp, a sidewalk will all do the trick. This helps kids with focus.  If they are standing during instruction, they have trouble focussing. We also make sure that seating is in the shade, when it's hot. 

Another thing that really helps is a portable mic/headset. We buy ours on Amazon for around $35. This has really helped with lessons, because there are so many noise distractions (cars, recess, airplanes, helicopters, lawn equipment, etc.)

A well planned out lesson cycle helps too. Having an intro and giving kids background info is helpful. We keep this short. Then we move to the activity and always bring them back at the end for a wrap up, share time and often a call to action. 

We also are not afraid to ask kids to sit out until they are ready to follow procedures and join back in. 

Hoping that you find a way to continue garden based learning. It is such a wonderful way to connect classroom content to application. 

Kim

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Kim Aman
Grow Garden Grow
Dallas TX
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Original Message:
Sent: 11-18-2023 01:07:20 PM
From: Em Shipman
Subject: Monitoring Extreme Behaviors in the Garden

Hi, all! I love this discussion, and I'm so glad it's happening here.

One thing I might recommend is talking with an OT at your school to get some ideas for some sensory (probably mostly proprioceptive and vestibular) activities you can do as a class at the start of each garden session to help everyone feel "in their bodies" and regulated. Using large muscle groups will be the most regulating.

Again, I would talk to an OT about this, but some activities might be:

• A few yoga poses
• Jumping jacks
• Cross-crawls
• Squats
• Crawling
• Wheelbarrow walks
• Deep breathing 

You could also probably find some great ideas from Go Noodle.

Em Shipman (she/her)

Executive Director

KidsGardening.org

802-222-7884

Why garden with kids?

Original Message:
Sent: 11/18/2023 11:16:00 AM
From: Cecilia Campbell
Subject: RE: Monitoring Extreme Behaviors in the Garden

Hi Amanda, what a great experience for your kids!

I have had similar experiences like that but in a smaller scale because I teach high school and they tend to behave better (open to discussion 😊). I find that if I give them a task/purpose with a product to deliver helps, either individual or in small group work. 
But again, some students are prone to engaging others in that behavior and it is best to keep tabs on the group's mood every day. I hope that helps and that you keep up the amazing experience for the kids!

Regards,

Cecilia Campbell

------------------------------
Cecilia Campbell
BioTECH High School
Homestead FL
------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 11-17-2023 01:41:08 PM
From: Steph Rooney
Subject: Monitoring Extreme Behaviors in the Garden

You are not alone! This has been happening to me for years. Being outside, even in the most organized garden, is such a different kind of classroom. Students may feel very stimulated and confused about how to behave. I think kids have worked so hard to regulate their bodies during their quiet reading, math, listening and discussion groups, not to mention what they may be dealing with at home, that they need a physical and expressive outlet. I do my best to manage and allow for them to swing, scream, pull and thrash in ways that no one gets hurt (even plants and tools).

What are ways and activities that you can let the kids get a little WILD? Is there somewhere that being loud will not disturb other classes too much? If you anticipate the kid's need to be fierce, and set your explicit expectations and boundaries, I think you will feel more in control of the situation.

I use:

*Attention getting sounds and fun transitions back to a calm classroom.

*plant part relay race game

*shredding old stems and material to compost 

*heavy lifting work!

*If they are pulling the wrong things while crazily pulling out weeds, I redirect them to dig elsewhere - somewhere they can make a mess and maybe just use their hands.

*I've made up rhyming "Rules for Tools" and repeat them often. Keep the tools LOW and slow and in control, Low and slow and do not throw, Give Space Just in Case. If they can't do that, I take the tool away and they can try again next time.

I hope this helps. I've been working on it for a long time.

------------------------------
Steph Rooney
Arbor School of Arts and Sciences

I think Steph had some great ideas.  I also use a garden flute to get their attention but I also have a megaphone which is very helpful if things are getting out of hand.  Do you have a seating area in the garden?  I feel like that's really important for kids to regroup.  They are so habituated to sit and gather at desks or on the rug or at tables that having a place for them to go back to like a home base or to sit out when they get too wild is really critical. 

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Hope Guardenier
------------------------------

These are all such helpful ideas, thank you!

We do not have a tabled gathering space, just a few benches, but I will use that more often as a grounding point. I also use a microphone, I love it, it allows me to speak normally but still have projection. Here is the link to it- def worth being able to communicate without projection which wears down my voice. (voice amplifier) 

This afternoon did go smoother with my 3rd grade group. However, the running was still a major issue. 

------------------------------
Amanda Twombly
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 11-17-2023 02:29:12 PM
From: Hope Guardenier
Subject: Monitoring Extreme Behaviors in the Garden

I think Steph had some great ideas.  I also use a garden flute to get their attention but I also have a megaphone which is very helpful if things are getting out of hand.  Do you have a seating area in the garden?  I feel like that's really important for kids to regroup.  They are so habituated to sit and gather at desks or on the rug or at tables that having a place for them to go back to like a home base or to sit out when they get too wild is really critical. 

------------------------------
Hope Guardenier
------------------------------

Amanda, You have received some really good suggestions. I am the volunteer garden teacher but I taught students with special needs for 39 years. I have had similar experiences. Behaviors, even it a fun environment like the garden, can be difficult. Like Steph said, the garden feels like a completely new environment to the kids.  Assume that your students need to be taught social skills (waiting in line, taking turns, working in teams, using new tools, asking a question, listening to others). Kids are greatly lacking these skills lately. 

My advice:

I know this is not easy, but in sp. ed. we are told don't take their behavior personally! Kids act up for three reasons - need attention, escape something or trying to get a need something met (can be a combination). 

Like Em suggested, use the OT at school. I have a great OT at the school that I confer with all the time. Em's ideas are right on.

Use Icons and pictures to use to give kids clues. Give them a visual schedule for the lesson. Nothing fancy, just write it out on butcher paper or a white board.  Kids are visual learners.

Steph and Kim had great ideas. All kids need so much structure today! I make sure I am all set up for the lesson. The kids meet me at the benches or sit on wide knee pads. I have a poster (often homemade) on what we are doing. I give specific simple instructions (keep very short) and tell them my expectations.

I tell them:

What tools they need

What they need to do

How they will know they are finished (or what I want to see)

And what they can do when they finish

If you want to give consequences, tell them upfront so they know what to expect.

Sometimes the lesson just doesn't go well (sub in the class, had a change in schedule, negative start to the day, lesson just doesnt' work for that group). You can stop and regroup or change it up. Also, try what is called "academic choice"- give students the task but give them 3 or 4 options to complete it. Have a kid(s) that can't work in a small group? I give them an individual task to start with in the garden until I see that they might want to join a group. 

I end all my groups, even when I have had a chaotic lesson, with a closing circle. We all meet back at our starting point and everyone takes turns sharing an offer of gratitude - "I am grateful for . . . " This takes a few sessions before they catch on. Give them guidelines (only positive and appropriate). I model it and I don't force everyone to share. If this is challenging, have them write it or draw it on a sticky note and make a collage from it. 

Keep at it! 

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Evelyn Margolin
Sacramento, CA
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 11-17-2023 03:26:56 PM
From: Amanda Twombly
Subject: Monitoring Extreme Behaviors in the Garden

These are all such helpful ideas, thank you!

We do not have a tabled gathering space, just a few benches, but I will use that more often as a grounding point. I also use a microphone, I love it, it allows me to speak normally but still have projection. Here is the link to it- def worth being able to communicate without projection which wears down my voice. (voice amplifier) 

This afternoon did go smoother with my 3rd grade group. However, the running was still a major issue. 

------------------------------
Amanda Twombly
------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 11-17-2023 02:29:12 PM
From: Hope Guardenier
Subject: Monitoring Extreme Behaviors in the Garden

I think Steph had some great ideas.  I also use a garden flute to get their attention but I also have a megaphone which is very helpful if things are getting out of hand.  Do you have a seating area in the garden?  I feel like that's really important for kids to regroup.  They are so habituated to sit and gather at desks or on the rug or at tables that having a place for them to go back to like a home base or to sit out when they get too wild is really critical. 

------------------------------
Hope Guardenier

Hi Amanda,

I am retired now, but when I was a Special Day Class teacher, I had a garden for the kiddos and it can be a real challenge. The suggestions already posted are great and I have just a few more that may help a bit. 

Have a specific plan for the garden time: planting, harvesting, weeding, monitoring for bugs, etc. As soon as that plan is either accomplished or derailed because of behaviors, stop and try again next time. 

As you know, we are not alone when we are in the garden. All insects, but especially flying insects can cause a great garden time to go real bad, real fast. Frontload the students with what to do when they are joined by 'our garden neighbors'. Have lessons on the different types of flying insects that could be out there and how to behave if they are. For example, if there are a few drone honey bees gathering pollen, they are usually okay and just move around them slowly and they won't cause problems. The only time they sting is if they go into fight or flight mode, so keeping calm is the key. If there are wasps, more caution is needed and it is best to keep away since they are more aggressive and can sting several times. But still, backing away and moving slowly is very important. Japanese beetles are very annoying but pretty harmless, etc. Just like with other academic areas, when we know what to expect, we are able to maintain more control. 

Classroom management doesn't only apply to the classroom. Continue with your same token economy reward system, class dojo points, whatever plan you have in place; utilize it outside as well. This will help the students maintain consistency and will provide realistic expectations for them. 

Again, this was a big learning curve and didn't happen overnight, but what I found to be the most successful was when I had the class broken up into 3 groups and they worked in centers. They rotated every 20 minutes and it also meant that only one third of the class was in the garden at a time. While the garden center was the most engaging, the other 2 were related to garden time and exciting for them as well. For example, the writing or drawing center would involve what activity they would be doing or what bug they thought they might see that day during garden time, (and if they already had the garden time center, journaling with words or pictures what happened.) The math or science center would depend on the activity, but for one lesson, I picked a sunflower and they were to use various strategies to estimate how many seeds, or how many kernels on a cob, etc. If it is a tech center, they could research how long various veggies take to grow, the anatomy of a beetle, etc. Then the garden time center would involve the one specific activity mentioned above, and each group could only do one third of the activity, leaving some for the other groups. 

I know it can be real discouraging and might seem like a lot of extra work, and you might just want to chuck garden time into the 'compost bin' altogether, but even with virtual reality and the other techie gadgets they have now, kiddos receive so much from real life garden experiences. They gain a healthy respect for nature, hope for the future, tools to be self sustaining as they grow, I can go on and on. I really hope this helps and if other things come to mind, I'll try to pass them on. 

Brian

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Brian Walker
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